Monday, 25 May 2020
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A quick update:
We just finished the design for our new USB only PCB. We have PCB prototypes in production right now, and we will hopefully have them in a few weeks. I will post pictures when they arrive.

Why USB only PCB (which we now call KeyMouse PCB 2.0)?
1. Dealing with wireless & batteries has been the primary cause of support problems for KeyMouse. For a single device it's not too big of a deal, but with a split keyboard keeping both sides in sync with wireless/USB combo is problematic. Just overall too many issues caused by it.
2. Some computer USB ports could not put out enough power for 2 devices + charging the batteries. Charging the batteries while using KeyMouse would put extra power load on the USB port. This would cause sporatic device disconnects where some users had to even remove batteries to get KeyMouse to work.
3. Due to a complex business arrangement (which I will not get into here because it evolved over time), the firmware for our KeyMouse PCB 1.4 is sub-contracted and updates/bug fixes are not fully in our control. There have been some debounce issues we've been trying to get resolved for years, and still don't have a solution. We have full control of the firmware on our new KeyMouse PCB 2.0, which has been in development in the background for quite a while now. It will have more features, more layers, and better macros, etc. Firmware is progressing nicely. We still need to update the desktop software to write layers to it directly.
4. Our new PCB is a Master/Slave setup, so the computer will see 1 device instead of 2. You will still chain the devices similar to when using existing KeyMouse devices (1 cable to computer, and 1 cable between). On existing KeyMouse devices the left/right hand do not communicate to each other through the cable...it's actually a USB Hub to relay the signal to the computer. The new PCB has a communication protocol between left/right hands which will help a lot for reliability and giving us a lot more options. This will simplify a lot of issues particularly on Mac, where it does not recognize modifier keys such as Shift/Ctrl/Alt/Cmd from "other" keyboards (you can't press Shift on left keyboard + Y on right keyboard to get a capital Y). We worked around this by having modifier keys be sent from both left/right hands any time a key was pressed, which works pretty good, but creates other negative side effects. New system will be a lot better. There will still be mouse in both left/right hands which we still can control independently for speed, DPI, etc., but computer will just see 1 device.

Why did we pause production?
1. We ran out of PCB's and hit a point that we wanted to re-evaluate everything. Our primary background is software, and running a software company + hardware company was becoming overwhelming. I've developed software for 25+ years, and trust me, it's a cakewalk compared to hardware. We built KeyMouse because we LOVE to use it ourselves and we're very glad for all your support of the product. The pause of several months has given us some time to evaluate how to move forward better to still offer KeyMouse. Solving some of the issues above with the new PCB will help cut down on time needed for supporting devices. We have also raised the price which will help make the business more self-sustainable. We assemble and test KeyMouse by hand.
2. We had re-designed our Cherry PCB modules with a brand new punch down system for much cleaner wiring inside the devices (enough room for backlight wires) But...we had not tested it fully yet in the field. We just need more time to test this and make sure it's going to be the correct path forward.

What is the path forward for KeyMouse?
1. We are currently waiting for our new KeyMouse PCB 2.0 prototypes to arrive.
2. We will need to make updates to our 3D models to match the new PCB (this part should go pretty quick).
3. We need to update our desktop software to write key layouts to the new PCB.
4. We plan to begin offering devices again once we have had enough time to test and ensure the device is stable with our new PCB and our new punchdown system on the switches - assuming they work smoothly.
5. Long term we hope our modular KeyMouse platform can be used for creating many types of devices - programming, gaming, CAD, 3D modeling, and many more industries. There are many types of devices that could be built with our core components, and we would love for people to use them to create their own input device ideas.
6. We may do some license deals in manufacturing moving forward to free up our time to work more in our area of specialty.

Side note: to cut down on support we will no longer be supporting Chair Mounting for KeyMouse. There are too many types of chairs with various shapes and orientations of the armrests. We will give access to the 3D models of our chair mounting parts, which you can modify and use for 3D printing your own custom parts to mount KeyMouse devices. We actually really like chair mounting, but cannot support all the configurations at this time. Maybe in the future.

Thank you all for your support of KeyMouse. :)
Heber Allred locked this post — 10 months ago
10 months ago
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#2505
I'm locking this thread, since it's getting really long. Please post new topics into new threads.
10 months ago
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#2504
Rory, what I've done is replaced the outer columns of the track keys with blanks, and left them unassigned, so that I don't do the pinky stretch to those. It has worked out well for me, but I too would prefer to just now have those buttons there at all.

I have both the track and the alpha, and I do prefer the track.


Thanks for the reply Cameron. Yes, I'm super keen on the track.
I was wondering if, seeing as the cases are 3d printed anyway, I could just print a smaller case rather than putting blanks in. Do you think that would work?
Do you then map the numbers to the regular letters with a mode shift key or something?
10 months ago
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#2501
Rory, what I've done is replaced the outer columns of the track keys with blanks, and left them unassigned, so that I don't do the pinky stretch to those. It has worked out well for me, but I too would prefer to just now have those buttons there at all.

I have both the track and the alpha, and I do prefer the track.
10 months ago
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#2500
I just can't wait for them to go on sale after watching this thread for 18 months. I'm starting a new job in a month and a half and would love to have them by then. Bummer about Bluetooth and RF compatibility though.
10 months ago
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#2499
Hi there, I've been excitedly waiting for these to come available for a LONG time now (apparently I'm not the only one).
I just have a couple of questions:
1) I noticed that fully assembled units are "out of stock". I don't mind assembling myself (I'm a hardware guy!), but I need a materials list (or perhaps you could add the 'unassembled without 3d printing' as a purchasable item)
2) I'd like the track rather than alpha, but I like how the alpha has fewer keys (and I agree with your reasoning on why). Could I modify the track's 3d model to accommodate fewer keys and make a track version of that? Is that something you'd recommend?
3) Also, is it possible for me to start with, say, just the right hand and use a keyboard on the left hand to save cost while I try it out? What are your thoughts.

thanks!
Rory
10 months ago
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#2495
@Dustin We have these key cap sets available. You choose which set you want when adding the product to the cart. We have not pursued the custom key graphics further, so this is what we have for now.
KeyMouse Alpha Keycaps
KeyMouse Track Keycaps
10 months ago
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#2494
So excited for you guys! And me too. Those sound like some great improvements. The mouse resolution upgrade in particular is intriguing to me.
10 months ago
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#2493


Just remember, moving forward we don't have Bluetooth or wireless RF.


This broke my heart.
10 months ago
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#2492
Thx for the update. Looking forward to buy upgraded model.
10 months ago
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#2491
Long time listener, first time caller (if you don't count the old UserVoice system). I'm hoping to get an order placed once orders open, and I'm wondering about the status of keycap sets re:

We will be getting into custom key caps, so I'm sure there will be overlap with our future path of product offerings. We already have several versions in stock (Colemak, DVORAK, QWERTY, QWERTZ, AZERTY, Blank). We are also working on a re-legendable key cap (allows users to print their own graphics and insert). See attached link for the current key caps we have in stock. These were designed for our original KeyMouse (with more keys), so they would need re-worked for the current KeyMouse.


Are there new or existing sets that would be compatible here? I'd like to have dvorak or perhaps even arensito keycaps, and I'd rather start with them than end up with my own proprietary configuration that is difficult to remember because it doesn't match witch keycaps that come later.
10 months ago
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#2490
awesoooome!

is the new tracking sensor board also compatible with the old models? I'd maybe order a few spares in case of failure (one already failed, luckily I ordered 10 extra spares :D)
10 months ago
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#2489
"...hopefully we can start taking orders next week..."

So excited about this, you guys!
10 months ago
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#2488
@Alon As you mention - the PCB mounting is different, and the ports won't line up, but electrically it should be possible to upgrade an existing device to the new PCB (with old design likely wont be able to get backlight wires to fit, but at least will be on the latest PCB and have access to new firmware updates, etc.). Just might have to use a dremel tool, etc. We are building a 3D model for a "PCB mount adapter" to help (which we will post publicly), but will not be officially supported.
10 months ago
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#2487
Can I replace the PCBS on my existing devices with the new one?

I’m just referring to the electric wiring aspect - not if it mounts exactly the same as the old one - or even the port “windows” on the case… (that essentially will not pose a problem)
10 months ago
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#2486
Once you have the key mouse track up... TAKE MY MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10 months ago
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#2485
We have the new PCBs V3, and so far in testing, they are working well. Finally, we have a good batch of PCBs!!! :)

We'll do further testing this week, and hopefully we can start taking orders next week. This is a total re-write of the firmware, and the keys use a new punch down system instead of pins (cleaner wiring to make space for backlight wires). We will list it as "beta" for now, but we think it will work fine. The good news is we have control of the firmware now. The foundation for this new firmware is more solid and more flexible than previously, but has less users, so it's less tested. If you are anxious to buy one, just have a little patience with any minor quirks, and we'll get firmware updates as soon as possible. If you want rock solid, wait a little. It's solid enough for us to use as our primary input devices if that helps.

A few key improvements off the top of my head for Alpha & Track:
1. Backlight
2. Higher resolution 12,000 DPI mouse sensor.
3. USB ports are through-hole mounted (stronger). Should have been on previous design, but now we know and it's fixed. Some users have had USB ports come loose from PCB...hopefully this doesn't happen anymore.
4. Many more layers (previously limited to 6, now the memory is used much more efficiently...at least 10+...maybe 100+ if you need it depending on how many macros you store in the device).
5. Future: will have ability for macros stored directly in device memory instead of needing the KeyMouse Software to be running all the time to intercept keys and type the macro for you. Firmware foundation is in place for this, but not fully implemented yet. Will come in a firmware update.
6. Key debounce is handled much better...when a button goes "bad" I think you will be able to just slightly increase the debounce time (for that button) and get much more life from the button.
7. Left & right hands communicate by serial (using USB mini B to mini B cable), so the computer sees 1 device instead of 2. It simplifies a lot of things.
8. PCB is black. It's just better this way.

Just remember, moving forward we don't have Bluetooth or wireless RF.
Attachments (1)
11 months ago
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#2483
I'm currently trying out these:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/21uttwawW-L._AC_SY580_.jpg
In combination with these:
https://tweakers.net/i/-ChBvdan02FOVl3AM9j6tenNGt8=/i/2004226196.jpeg
11 months ago
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#2482
Yep, as Cameron suggests, drill out the holes just enough to remove the loose/weak material, and enable you to get a filler to the bottom. Two component epoxy is ideal if you can get it all the way down in the hole, but another option that is sometimes easier to do, is CA glue (cyanoacrylate, i.e. superglue), combined with sodium bicarbonate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tHhW1XOm2U

You could also set in your own threaded inserts as part of the process.

I concur on asking Herber to use inserts as an improvement to the product when it is built, but like USB-C and other things, they're nice to have and will probably an evolution for a future revision. To recover what you already have now though, the above DIY approach is workable (if a little tedious).
11 months ago
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#2481
i go though LOTS of mouse buttons (it's ok it's worth it) and those screw holes are kinda.... not really useful anymore :)


Use 2-part epoxy and a filler compound (even sawdust works) to fill those holes. Let fully set. Re-drill & tap. Good as new. (I've had to repair more than a few things like this in the past.)
11 months ago
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#2480
Exactly! Something to deal with cable strain on the Alpha (not necessary on the Track) would be far more effective than which plug gets used.

For what it's worth, Heber, I've never had an issue with the USB cables on either of mine (Alpha or Track). I have them in two different offices (i.e. two different locations in the US), so I'm either using all one, or all the other. No issues, other than the way-out-of-date software and its flaky support on Mac (which thus far I have been able to work around, although I have no recollection of the details of how I do it ... I think recently I've been using a Windows machine to config the keyboards).
11 months ago
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#2479
We used USB Mini B instead of Micro because Mini are stronger and more stable than Micro, especially for a device that is moving around on the desk.
For example: Micro connections on XBox controllers are a pain in the behind, always disconnecting. It could just be my own bad experiences, but IMO Micro USB is a terrible design. USB-C is much better, but we don't have time to put it in for this version of the PCB. It will have to come in a future revision. The magnet idea is cool. I think customers modifying their own devices with aftermarket solutions will be best for now, and could eventually work their way into shipping with the product.


ohh and PLEASE, for all that is good in this world. PLEASE set the new ones up so that there is a metal thread insert for (machine screws now) to screw into.

i go though LOTS of mouse buttons (it's ok it's worth it) and those screw holes are kinda.... not really useful anymore :)

keep in mind that i use this thing 12-14 hours a day and use the mouse button more than any key or anything else, so it's not like it's a real problem with the hardware.
11 months ago
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#2478
I had issues with intermittent disconnection too.. this low-tech solution worked for me...

keymouse connector.jpg
Attachments (1)
11 months ago
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#2477
We used USB Mini B instead of Micro because Mini are stronger and more stable than Micro, especially for a device that is moving around on the desk.
For example: Micro connections on XBox controllers are a pain in the behind, always disconnecting. It could just be my own bad experiences, but IMO Micro USB is a terrible design. USB-C is much better, but we don't have time to put it in for this version of the PCB. It will have to come in a future revision. The magnet idea is cool. I think customers modifying their own devices with aftermarket solutions will be best for now, and could eventually work their way into shipping with the product.
11 months ago
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#2476
I wound't even need both to be magnetic, if they inset the connector even further (another half inch to an inch would keep the end of the cord from sticking out).

honestly, switching to usb-c (though leave the usb-a that way) would allow us to go magnetic. Having the keymouse tied together with a cable is fine, but being magnetic means that the connection from my chair to the computer can pop out easily. Also, another reason to switch to usb-c is the fact that it's getting hard to find these cables, as almost nothing uses them, but usb-c is everyhwere, and i have tons of them.
11 months ago
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#2475
Interesting! I could see it being "magnets all around", i.e. the plug going to the computer being a USB-C capable magnetic connection, and the bridge between the two keyboards as well being magnets on both ends.

Heber?
11 months ago
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#2474
Is it going to be USB-C?
Because the current PCB version uses USB mini (which is larger than USB micro, and about the same size as USB-C).
I have not been able to find magnetic tipped USB mini cables (only USB-C and USB micro).


after some tinkering got this magnetic connection. used an 8 pin pogo connector and 1 fonken magnetic micro usb cable DSC_0542.jpg

It's a shame keymouse is ignoring me so I couldn't reprint the case to support the connector properly...
Attachments (1)
11 months ago
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#2473
Just had this idea: what if the PCB 2.0 has a colorfully RGBW LED on it that shows the color of the layer that is currently active?
Similar to how regular keyboards show Caps-lock is active.


Coming back to this: what if, instead of a single LED showing the color of the active layer, the keys themselves have a white and blue and yellow _transparent_ label (i.e.light filter), with RGBW LEDs behind them (not necessarily per key). Such that the keys light up in the layer color and due to the transparent labels in that color only show that color (since that's how light filters work).
11 months ago
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#2472
Is it going to be USB-C?
Because the current PCB version uses USB mini (which is larger than USB micro, and about the same size as USB-C).
I have not been able to find magnetic tipped USB mini cables (only USB-C and USB micro).
11 months ago
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#2471
So what you are saying is all we would need to do for the new Keymouse is to purchase the PCB and replace them. I have an alpha that I got in 2018 the new PCBs will work with them?
11 months ago
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#2468
So does that mean we can just replace the PCBs in our Keymouse that have with the new PCBs? Because I have the Alpha s/n 1478. It would be cool if it worked for the ones that I have.
11 months ago
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#2467
Fully agree! I just can't imagine my life anymore without Keymouse Track. I have 2 of them and use them daily! When I use them in the command line work and coding, I get to navigate and type so fast that I feel like I'm in the matrix, fusing with the machine!

Looking forward to the new versions, will buy again, if nothing else then to support the development!
11 months ago
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#2465
So happy to hear that things are still rolling, Heber! Been a while since I took a look at what you all were up to, but I think about you guys often. My Keymouse is such an essential part of my life and workflow now. I will be jumping up and down when your latest build is in the world.

I'm very sorry about the hellish trials of the PCB thus-far. I hope that this latest batch brings a blissful, bug-free nirvana.
11 months ago
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#2464
I tripped on the USB cable hard for the 50th time, and my KeyMouse Track PCB left broke on 2021-03-14. I sent an email to support but they are dead.
I am waiting for PCB 2.0, but can't wait because I am now using Ubuntu laptop for work, and Razer doesn't have Linux support, and can't find something as good as Autohotkey. And I refuse to buy company subsidized wireless keyboard, because it's wireless.

So I bought a PCB 1.0 today. Well done guys, you win. UNBELIEVABLE :D
11 months ago
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#2462
Do you have a target launch date for the newest version of Keymouse? I've read all the messages about PCB trouble and the other setbacks you've had so I understand this may be impossible to say but I'm curious nevertheless.
11 months ago
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#2451
Crossing our fingers that everything works right. We were up to version 2.7 with all the bad versions, so we just decided to change the version to 3.0 now, so we can forget about the 2.X nightmares of bad PCB batches. The new software will be 3.x and the new PCB will be 3.x. We'll just shift it over to 3s across the board. KeyMouse PCB 3.0, KeyMouse Software 3.0, KeyMouse Alpha 300. KeyMouse Track 300, etc.


It's been a long slog. Y'all deserve some good fortune at this point!
12 months ago
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#2449
Waiting... with baited breath!!!
12 months ago
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#2448
The latest PCB batch is in progress (has been for a few weeks). Hopefully we can get rolling again when the batch arrives in a few weeks from now. Crossing our fingers that everything works right. We were up to version 2.7 with all the bad versions, so we just decided to change the version to 3.0 now, so we can forget about the 2.X nightmares of bad PCB batches. The new software will be 3.x and the new PCB will be 3.x. We'll just shift it over to 3s across the board. KeyMouse PCB 3.0, KeyMouse Software 3.0, KeyMouse Alpha 300. KeyMouse Track 300, etc.
12 months ago
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#2447
Keymouse - A Haiku

Where could the PCB be
For I desire a KeyMouse
Too bad it's not free
1 year ago
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#2440
Roses are Red
Keymice are black
When oh when
Will you get the PCB back?


This has moved pretty slowly, hasn't it?

Fortunately, I have two pair of these, and they are still working like new.

Unfortunately, when I'm away from the office, the m1 MacBook Pro keyboard / touch pad / touch bar is atrocious. Seriously atrocious.


Yeah, I have been waiting quite a while. I'm the one with the computer pic a little bit up/down(depending on how you view the replies.)
I honestly finally was able to buy them, and within days of checking I finally got the money I was gonna spend on it, it was out of stock.



Just had this idea: what if the PCB 2.0 has a colorfully RGBW LED on it that shows the color of the layer that is currently active?
Similar to how regular keyboards show Caps-lock is active.


This sounds awesome. Any RGB is a yes from me. I bought a temp half keyboard in the meantime (doesn't do the job), and it has some really awesome LED effects. So, I might eventually try and do something full keyboard.
1 year ago
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#2437
Just had this idea: what if the PCB 2.0 has a colorfully RGBW LED on it that shows the color of the layer that is currently active?
Similar to how regular keyboards show Caps-lock is active.
1 year ago
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#2433
Thanks Heber for the continuous updates!
Great to hear there is overall progress! (2 steps forward and 1 step back is still progress!)

I'm patiently waiting for the ChairTrack to be back in stock to use at the office of my new job! And in the mean-time I'm a very happy user of the ChairTrack working from home for the last few years!

1 request:
Would it be possible to have the same soft-to-the-touch material on the palm rest exactly like the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 has?
(sorry for the off-topic request)

Kind regards,
Paul
1 year ago
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#2429
Roses are Red
Keymice are black
When oh when
Will you get the PCB back?


This has moved pretty slowly, hasn't it?

Fortunately, I have two pair of these, and they are still working like new.

Unfortunately, when I'm away from the office, the m1 MacBook Pro keyboard / touch pad / touch bar is atrocious. Seriously atrocious.
1 year ago
·
#2425
Roses are Red
Keymice are black
When oh when
Will you get the PCB back?
1 year ago
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#2422
We received the PCBs. There is an issue with the slave device receiving power from the master device (through the serial port). The PCB engineer is in the middle of moving, so he will be checking it out on Monday. There is a circuit on the devices to detect whether power is coming into the device from the USB port or the Serial port, so that the device knows whether it's master or slave. That circuit had some modifications in this last revision. I'm guessing a tweak needs made to that circuit. Frustrating, but I'll let you know when I hear back from the PCB engineer.

In response to the message above about firmware and QMK:
The KeyMouse Software and KeyMouse Firmware is our own written from scratch. The software and firmware do not need to be open source for you to create custom devices with it. The structure of the software is flexible and uses JSON files to define the keys & mouse behavior of the device. We will be adding more features in the Software to help users modify & create their own devices and configure how the buttons are arranged, etc. We're also planning to make a public location for users to share their custom devices as well as 3D printable STL files. Once we resolve the PCB, we will shift our focus to this.
1 year ago
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#2421
@heber you mention closed software. Does that include firmware? I had assumed the firmware would be open to encourage using the modules for custom non keymouse use cases. Please clarify this. Thanks.

Is the new hardware QMK based?
1 year ago
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#2420
Once we get the test batch of PCBs and verify they work from the factory with no modifications needed (hopefully next week), we'll order another batch for production. That will take about a month for production and shipping to us. In the meantime, we will be updating the KeyMouse Software to handle the new PCB (firmware updates, etc.) much of which is done already, but more needed. I believe by the time the next batch arrives we can start shipping products again. The KeyMouse Software 2.X will be for updating KeyMouse Devices pre-2021 (PCB version 1.4). The new KeyMouse Software 3.X and newer will be for the new PCB. We will have download links for both on the website. We tried opening the software to a few users, but nobody has made any updates or modifications we are aware of. We're still thinking about how to proceed. Current plans are to allow users to customize the 3D models, but not the software (at least for now).
1 year ago
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#2419
We just ordered a test batch of 15 KeyMouse PCBs of version 2.6 and 2.6T (trackball version). This is our 4th batch working out bugs (with multiple other revisions between). Each batch takes about 3 weeks for production.


Once you get a working PCB back, what does the pipeline look like to get new products available? i.e. is it instantaneous, or does it take a few months?

I'm also a bit concerned about the software side of it, as the software is a bit out of date to say the least. Any chance of open sourcing it? Or at least providing a source license to customers for use with the KeyMouse?
1 year ago
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#2415
Many thanks for the update!!!
1 year ago
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#2413
Sound great!

Hope that the new arrangement will be more suited to you - and to the development-nature of this line of products.

May I ask if at this point you can say if the new PCB would be backward-compatible?
This of course is something that I would be totally happy about - but I would obviously completely understand if it would be otherwise.

I’m “moding” the KeyMouse Track all the time, and would love to buy the new PCB when possible - if it is indeed after all backward-compatible - and provide functional verification from the field for the new PCB.

Another thought - building on the DIY attitude that stems from the 3D prints that allow some degree of user-creativity: I would suggest adding a section devoted to “user customization” - where we can show and share our customizations (STLs, Layouts and images…). I think this would be something advantageous both for existing users, and for potential buyers…
1 year ago
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#2411
Thank you for the update!
1 year ago
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#2410
We just ordered a test batch of 15 KeyMouse PCBs of version 2.6 and 2.6T (trackball version). This is our 4th batch working out bugs (with multiple other revisions between). Each batch takes about 3 weeks for production. That's the main reason it's been taking so long. We also switched to a different PCB engineer (due to so many issues)...frustrating how many batches we've had to build, but hopefully this is the final test batch before we start building KeyMouses again. I'm using a KeyMouse Alpha set currently with the latest PCB which has been manually fixed by the PCB engineer. It's working good so far. Some minor firmware bugs to work out (easy), but I think in the end it will be more reliable than previous versions of KeyMouse.
1 year ago
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#2392
Please, please, please, hurry!

This is all I need to complete my dream set up. I have my chair modded to be able to handle to Alphas.

IMG_20210725_060205622_HDR.jpg
keep up the good work. Ready to buy 2.0 !!
Is there any new updates?
1 year ago
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#2366
I've had two of your keymouse tracks over the past 5 years, and I can promise you that I will never again use any keyboard other than yours! That said, I'm anxious to spend money on the 2.0 product. I'm a software developer and I'm extremely hard on input devices!

Any updates on your to market date? Or even an alpha/beta timeframe? Hard drugs aren't as addictive as your products!

BTW, great call on dropping the chair mount! It's just chaff!
1 year ago
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#2364
Hi guys, the last update is more then a month old.

Can you please post an update on the new PCBs?

Many thanks, Torsten
1 year ago
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#2360
Yup. There are magnetic capbles for USB micro and USB C, but I've never seen them for mini.
1 year ago
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#2359
5c regarding micro usb vs mini usb... Ironically the connector is starting to fail on on of my keyboards. This is probably due to the fact that I often carried it with my in my backpack with cables connected, but nonetheless... The solution I had in mind for that was replacing it with a microusb and using one of those neat magnetic cables. But turned out that one one hand micro and mini usb dont have compatible pcb layout, and on the other hand nobody makes magnetic cables for mini usb. So, while mini usb might be technologically better, practically, it seems too old...
1 year ago
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#2357
Hi. Any update? Anything? I'm checking the website almost daily now.
1 year ago
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#2354
How much longer? Getting desperate at this point. Thanks.
1 year ago
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#2353
How much longer? Days? Weeks? Months? My KeyMouse on Mac is unusable and I’m beginning to loose faith in your company
1 year ago
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#2352
Will there still be wireless and if so will it be the wireless USB or will it still be bluetooth?

Thank you!
1 year ago
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#2350
Whilst waiting for the V2, the mouse buttons on my alpha are on the way out/already dead. Can replacements still be purchased?
Keep up the good work. Making stuff is hard. I loooove my KeyMouse!!
1 year ago
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#2344
Cool. Never used bluetooth except for a singular try with my android phone (which actually worked, awesome). Will the new alpha version have a number row? that's the one i miss most.
1 year ago
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#2340
This is great, I never used nor expected to use the Bluetooth feature. I would with a laptop, but I don't carry the mouse to use with a laptop. Hopefully my alpha will keep working fine but I am glad to know that a new model is coming.
1 year ago
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#2332
Measure twice, cut once.
- Also, for some reason I no longer get email notifications for this thread (is that a feature or a bug?), so you get this profound text that I would normally wouldn’t write.
1 year ago
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#2331
I know this sounds redundant, but we just fixed some more hardware bugs on the PCB and will be ordering another sample batch soon. We will post again when we have tested them.
1 year ago
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#2312
Hello!!! When are the new versions going to be available for purchase?
1 year ago
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#2311
I have one more question about the software for the new model you will be releasing. Will the old model of track/alpha use the same software as the new models with updated pcb? If not, is there going to be any support for the original software to keep our keyboards working for many years to come?
1 year ago
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#2310
Do we have any more updates here on how close everything is to being ready for sale on the site? It's been many months now where it has said 1-2 months for the new version.

Thanks
1 year ago
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#2302
Good to see you are still making progress, and thanks again for letting me purchase that batch of switches and keys. It makes me feel much better waiting when i know i have enough supplies to make my lovely keymouse track survive. You have no idea the level of addiction that comes with getting used to them being mounted properly and securely on my chair after i've mastered using them. Ohh and the pages, i so love the pages, i can do so many things, i'd be pretty upset if i couldn't use them anymore.

Wishing you all the best in your efforts to be able to make them again, even if they aren't any better i'll be buying a set, if you improve them at all, i'll be amazed, such a great product once you learn to use them, and the learning curve was so much quicker than i expected it to be. Hell, i even use it for gaming now, and thats from a guy that HATED track balls prior to getting used to this.
1 year ago
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#2301
After a lot of back and forth communication between the PCB engineer and PCB manufacturing to fix bugs, verify components, availability, etc. a new batch of PCBs is in progress. This is 15 each of 3 PCBs.
1. KeyMouse Main PCB 2.3 - has mouse sensor built in - used for KeyMouse Alpha or mouse devices
2. KeyMouse Main PCB 2.3T - has NO mouse sensor (external for trackball) - could be used for any custom keyboard without mouse or along with Mouse Sensor Module to add mouse or trackball capability
3. Mouse Sensor Module 2.3T - external mouse sensor for trackball (works with Main PCB 2.3T)

Lots of possible device types can be built with these PCBs. I will let you know more when we receive and test them.
1 year ago
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#2297
Nice post, Pete. I also have a long history with RSI, that Kinesis Advantage Pro (two of them at $500 each) largely solved for me -- except for the mouse!

The KeyMouse Alpha was good, but still involved way too much strain (for me) to do much mousing, although it eliminated the movement between keyboard and mouse. I think that the KeyMouse Track is the product that I really needed, but I had to eliminate the outermost keys (I gave up all of the 7 pinky stretch keys on each hand).

Starting up a new hardware business is super hard. Hoping the absolute best for the KeyMouse guys.

I'm also a fan of what the WayTools startup is doing with the Textblade, but they're 6 years in, and have not yet gotten to GA. I have been using a prototype for a few years, and it's a technical marvel. I love to see the ingenuity and hard work that people put into these businesses, but I would also love to see them take off and be able to reward the people behind them! It's so tough these days to succeed when there are (seriously good) $20 mechanical keyboards coming out of China.
1 year ago
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#2292
Just want to reiterate something that i feel is important when you make these changes (because i have to take my setup apart today) .. PLEASE either use different switches for the mouse buttons or, make the mouse buttons externally able to change...

I guess, failing that, you could insert metal threads on one half for the screws to screw into, and maybe a rotateable flag to hold the switch in.. Either way, I'm buying your new setup when it comes out, but my job is an insane amount of clicking, and i even game with the thing, so I'm going to burn through switches pretty quickly, as I'm not an average user. That switch is not the easiest thing to get out with the angle the screws are in, and since they screw into plastic they are starting to get too lose (like the ones that hold the two halves together. This is fixable, but it might be good to avoid the problem as not everyone is going to be capable or appreciate that situation. More than happy to pay an extra 20 or whatever to have the metal threads or externally changing about switches.

That said, for others reading this. I've used the hell out of these things and am hopelessly addicted to them. They are still selling switches and such, they are amazing at supporting any needs that i have had, and these are more than worth every penny. Took some time to get used to, but after a few weeks of forcing it, i never ever want to use something else again. I played a game the other day that required my old naga mouse, and yeah, wrist pain, so i can confirm that these things enable me to work crazy hours with no wrist pain, and I'm considerably more efficient with them. Buy the keymouse when it comes out again. ( i suggest the keymouse track, then use brackets to attack them to the chair, works amazing)
1 year ago
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#2289
I just want to confirm. As of right now, the plan is to exclude full wireless capabilities on the keymouse alpha/track going forward? Full wireless was always one of the biggest selling points for the keymouse to me. I'm still interested in buying when you resume sales if they are wired, it's just a small disappointment. Thanks!
1 year ago
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#2283
Hi JB,
Thanks for your comments and support. We will for sure email everyone that is subscribed when it's ready. We will also post here as well as on our blog, FaceBook, and Twitter. I think we have emailed our user base only a few times since we have been mostly focused on product development (less on marketing).
1 year ago
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#2282
Is it possible to get an email when the new KeyMouse is available (including for preorder)? I love my KeyMouse Alpha, and would love to be one of the first to buy the new one when it becomes available.

(I am already subscribed to the mailing list, but I don't think I've ever received an email from it, so am not sure this will be a reliable way to find out. I know I could subscribe to email updates for this forum thread, but based on the previous posts, it seems I'd get a lot of emails that aren't relevant -- I just want to know when this is available.)

Thanks for your great work on KeyMouse. Cheering you on from here!
1 year ago
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#2278
At least in our experience, Mini B cables have a much more solid connection than Micro USB especially for devices that move. Micro USB just seem problematic in our own experience with other devices. Others may have different preferences, but I personally do not like the micro USB connectors at all.
1 year ago
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#2277
Yes Jonathan, it will be a Mini B to Mini B for connecting the two (serial connection). It will be for power to the second device, and inter-device communication. We have to do a few tricks to auto-swap TX and RX in the serial connection based on the power source (coming in from Serial connection or USB connection). As far as we can tell, this is working smoothly so far.


Why mini usb and not micro usb? It is easier to get micro usb cables.
1 year ago
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#2276
Yes Jonathan, it will be a Mini B to Mini B for connecting the two (serial connection). It will be for power to the second device, and inter-device communication. We have to do a few tricks to auto-swap TX and RX in the serial connection based on the power source (coming in from Serial connection or USB connection). As far as we can tell, this is working smoothly so far.
1 year ago
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#2275
Thanks for the update again, Heber. Are those two Mini USB ports? Will you have a Mini to Mini cord to connect the two?
1 year ago
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#2274
We have debugged various issues on the PCB. We need to double check everything now. We're planning to order our next small batch in a few days to verify the PCB. See attached photo. We'll let you know when we receive them and test.
Attachments (1)
1 year ago
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#2271
Derry - even though Heber & co. are efficient once they get things set up and running, it's still best to assume "months" because they're not done qualifying all of the parts and producing an actual working product with these new parts, so there are still lots of things that may go wrong in the process. As you can see, they're already 5-6 months into this current process, and while we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, there's no guarantee that there won't be more hiccups in the pipeline.

Heber - I'd love to see some way to open up the firmware and configuration tools work, so that we're not captive to any future changes or inability to respond to OS changes, etc., but I understand that is complicated considering you don't want to accidentally give IP to another company that can compete with you using your work. Wishing y'all the best ... you've done some great work, and I'd love to see it grow for many years to come.
1 year ago
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#2270
Hi Heber, do you have a rough time frame for the product release? As in, a few days? A few weeks? Months?
1 year ago
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#2269
Counting the days until you have the keymouse track available for puchase. :)
1 year ago
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#2263
We have fixed several bugs in the PCB regarding impedance and mouse sensor issues. There is one more bug to solve regarding backlight circuit before we run another batch. Part of the delay is that those helping us solve these issues have other primary jobs and help us on the side after hours and on weekends. Thanks for your patience. Hopefully this week we can solve this backlight issue and order more PCBs.
1 year ago
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#2242
Black for the PCB color and 12,000 DPI mouse sensor.
That is one big improvement.
2 years ago
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#2232
Going to start off by saying I love the Keymouse, and I am incredibly excited for the new PCBs (and hearing it's joystick capable).

Mostly chiming in because the uniqueness was questioned earlier, so adding my input.

I am a lazy person, and have been using a computer with only one hand since 2014 when a friend gifted a Logitech G13 to me. I mostly use my computer for gaming and browsing the internet. I programmed the G13 so it would fully replace the keyboard and mouse (Initially an experiment to see how much I could do with it, but since I no longer had to be moving two hands back and forth on a keyboard to type, or reach for a mouse, just do everything with one stationary hand, I loved it and became lazy). The Keymouse Track is a lot better than the G13, and has the added benefit of being able to work on anything a keyboard works on without needing specific software running.

While for me it is something I do so I don't have to be moving my hands around, or for dual boxing in games (if one hand can do everything on a computer, two hands can fully control two computers), I think this product can be immensely useful for people with hand injuries or otherwise unable to use two hands.
2 years ago
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#2218
I often say, I use the mouse more since I got a KeyMouse, but I also use the keyboard more.

Although a non sequitur, that is what it is like. Not only can I use the mouse for things I would not have previously, because it is always under my hands, I can also use the keyboard for things I would not have previously, because it is always under my hands.

For example, I never used to use Ctrl+T to open a new tab on my browser, because I typically had my hand on the mouse anyway. Also, I use the mouse more often when navigating text fields than I ever did before (for movements that take a large amount of clicks, and my mouse in already in the area). There are also many more occasions where this happens.
2 years ago
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#2217
Try sending a PM to the guy on reddit, the last I heard he had a few units left. But TBF if I owned a KeyMouse I think I'd spend a lot less time on my Dichotomy :D

I get your point, having an actual optical sensor is not a common feature for a keyboard to have. And I can understand how that could be a killer feature for some users. But for the amount of cursor moving that I do, any pointing device will do. Actually I was more interested in the trackball variant, with plans to chair-mount it in the future.

Speaking of the trackball variant, thank you @Pete for the feedback and the picture! much appreciated.
2 years ago
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#2216
I was tracking (no pun intended) this since it was announced on Kickstarter or wherever that was. I bought both the Alpha and the Track as soon as they were available. With some exceptions, they have been my main office development keyboards since I've received them (60+ hours/week), with a few interruptions from Kinesis and W******s. The Track has been planted on my keyboard tray for some time now (except when it was drinking coffee, which caused me to put it through detox a few times.) For desk work, I found that the Alpha was giving me some strain from constantly moving the right hand keymouse, but I still like the Alpha overall (it just needs more space to work with, I guess). I'd really like an Alpha-sized Track with a few more thumb buttons (I use ~5 layers).
2 years ago
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#2215
Ah, thanks. It's too bad dichotomy didn't catch on, and I'm bummed out I missed out on the group buy! :(

Just a quick googling shows the "nipple" to be about 33% slower than a trackpad [1] (which is far worse than a mouse) and a trackball operating at about 66% speed of a mouse and almost twice as error-prone for long-reach tasks [2]. This is maybe overkill, our intuition and anyone who has used these devices tells as that nothing beats the mouse when it comes to precise selection tasks.

All this assumes a traditional interface with menus and buttons of course, which we seem to be moving away from as we move towards touchscreens and people spend less time at desktops. It was a sad day when I sold my blackberry KeyOne with a physical keyboard and moved onto a Samsung lol. The KeyOne was, I'd say, about 50-100% more efficient but I was eating losses at the slowness of the interface.

I think the KeyOne is another example of an underperforming similar to the KeyMouse. The audience just wasn't there, and UI seems to moving away from it, even though there will always be a need for desktop HIDs, just as there will always be a need to compose a long email on a mobile device.



[1] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00140130601127885
[2] https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Ls2-DwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA158&dq=mouse+vs+trackball+speed&ots=iJ9v4W8XUI&sig=4YduWdHo6B7d_WQypsXtykFnFus#v=onepage&q=mouse%20vs%20trackball%20speed&f=false
2 years ago
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#2214
@Liang I'm sorry, I said Mitosis when I meant Dichotomy (which isn't a fair comparison because it's not being produced at the moment). The UHK on the other hand has a trackball would totally work with my use case of light mousing and heavy typing (but disqualifies because I'm looking for something that would also work with an Android device).

Although I 100% agree that having a keyboard and a pointing device in a single HID is one of the most eye-catching features of the KeyMouse (hence the name I guess), that alone doesn't really make it an unique product: there's a $60 ThinkPad Trackpoint keyboard you can buy right now off Amazon if that's the only thing you care about. In my opinion what makes the KeyMouse unique -- and worth its price -- is the combination of all its features. If you remove one, a portion of the target audience might loose interest.

Maybe i'm in a minority. I hope so, because I would hate to see the V2 flop and ZZ no longer making HIDs.
2 years ago
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#2213
1) yes
2) well, re-training, but yeah it takes effort
3) yes
4) works on all windows machines at least, and installing the driver and plugging it in wasn't terribly complex. the default setup works great out of the box


Keep in mind, i have the keymouse track so i can't speak for the mouse version


That said, I'd add one other thing, which i think is the majority of the problem for these types of things

Keymouse doesn't add something, yes it's a vastly superior way of keyboarding and mousing (not talking about games here), but unlike a bigger harddrive, faster video card or proc. It's just another keyboard to most people. To be honest, the only reason i considered it was that i needed something for the beginnings of carpel tunnel, and all that stuff is expensive, most of it needs far more re-training than this, and most of them seem stupid to me. When i was forced to look for an ergo keyboard and mouse, getting both at once made the price reasonable (ergo keyboards are smallish markets so they have to recoup all the R&D costs at a faster rate). Also, when needing an ergo setup, keymouse track has some really stand out features (put Bluetooth aside, since i don't care about the wireless stuff).

There is another advantage, ergo wise, so keymouse that the others don't have. Once connected to my chair, all mu shoulder pains went away (i thought that ws form how i slept) and now i could raise my monitors on a totally different stand, and lean my chair back.. I might even buy a zero gravity chair at some point, as this is perfect for it. A month ago i went to a hotel for a business trip, and since i drove, took my keymouse. Was able to lay on the bed (they decided remote last moment) and have the keymouse at the side. Working in bed, now that was an experience, and it felt natural since I'm used to my keymouse

I do agree with the earlier poster, that it seems like we're all just gushing love on the creators of keymouse, but to that statement I'd say this : Get a keymouse track, set it up in a way thats optimal for your comfort (like for me it's the chair) and then use it for 2-3 months exclusively. Now, when someone threatens to take it away, i PROMISE you that you won't like that concept one bit, and that once that happens, you'll realize how important it became to how you do your work.. In practice, it's an amazing tool, super helpful, and addicting in how much better it makes life of a person tied to a keyboard all day. I love the hell out of it, and the concept of having to stop using it and get something else is, essentially, a thing of nightmares
Attachments (1)
2 years ago
·
#2212
There are plenty of reasons why KeyMouse hasn't "caught on":

  • it's only available from this web site
  • it requires some changes to how people work
  • it costs money ... a fair bit of money
  • it has a limited set of supported environments and some complexity in its installation and configuration


That said, it is a brilliantly good product ... just an expensive one with a few sharp edges.


Thanks for, like, expanding my mind, man, and pointing out my use of the technical jargon or inappropriate informalism "caught on". So I guess what is needed is, more websites, less changes to how people work (?), less cost, and ... more supported environments (I'm sure apple users will *love* this product, lol).
2 years ago
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#2211
There are plenty of reasons why KeyMouse hasn't "caught on":

  • it's only available from this web site
  • it requires some changes to how people work
  • it costs money ... a fair bit of money
  • it has a limited set of supported environments and some complexity in its installation and configuration


That said, it is a brilliantly good product ... just an expensive one with a few sharp edges.
2 years ago
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#2210
both keyboards being Bluetooth is a PITA, because of syncing issues and such. I suspect that if the Bluetooth was just for one keyboard to the one keymouse to the computer, and the two keymouse were wired it'd be easy. But that would only be good with the keymouse track.. Either way, i've ALWAYS had my track connected via wire (while attached to my chair) because i'm addicted to using it, and if i were to forget to plug in in to charge, then i'd have to use a normal keyboard again <puke>.

Even though you say that this gets rid of you as a potential customer, i suggest you think twice if you were considering the track. Even with me, who HATED trackballs, LOVE the keymouse track when attached to my chair (used some brackets and hose clamps, works amazing). Now i couldn't live without it, and after i had that scare where keys were getting stuck, even ones i didn't press (windows update caused it and eventually one fixed it) i'll be buying one of the new generation to have just in case mine does eventually die. Thats how good it is (once you get used to using it), that you'll do pretty much anything to continue to use them.. The design is so amazing, really, the only thing i'd change is use a keyboard button for the mouse button, because with my job i burn out the mouse buttons eventually.. That said, they send you several extras and it's just a few screws to change.
2 years ago
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#2209
[quote...If I understand correctly what the PCB 2.0 will be capable of you'll be competing with models like the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard and the Mitosis. On that note you might want to update your "why is KeyMouse $499" (sic.) article because the "unique feature set" argument hasn't much ground now.

I don't get it. Neither of those keyboards, although cool, have the "unique proposition" that they are also a mouse?

Not sure if I'm stating the obvious, but the killer feature, I believe, is not having to move your hand to a mouse. You might not be aware of just how much this improves mundane tasks like browsing and word processing.

I would actually propose that the closest "competitor" is VIM. VIM is a dedicated text editor dedicated to solving this exact problem by using keyboards commands to navigate, which I used for a loong time for that exact reason, and this is *definitely* faster, by a long shot.

But where this feature really shines is form filling -- such as excel, PDF's etc, or editing -- when you have a completed document that you are jumping around and editing. It also provides a significant speed advantage in Adobe products (Acrobat, Illustrator) because they rely so heavily on keyboard shortcuts (that can't be reassigned, sigh).

The Keymouse solves this problem brilliantly. It hasn't caught on, however, because (1) are we slightly past the age of text entry except in more professional or creative settings? (2) It lacks that "sexiness" factor.
2 years ago
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#2208
Very good news and thanks lots for the update, can't wait. :)
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